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Episodes
Music Thinker and Creative Companion Christof Zürn takes you inside the minds of some of the world’s most exciting people ‘AND Musicians’. Professionals that in some or other way use music, musical principles, instruments and techniques to work meaningful together. Or in short: the podcast for People with a musical heart and a wicked job.
Episodes

Monday May 20, 2024
Sound Buildings with Ron van Leeuwen
Monday May 20, 2024
Monday May 20, 2024
Today, we speak with Ron van Leeuwen, who straddles two creative worlds. By day, he is an architect and urban designer, shaping physical spaces. By night, he transforms his creative energy into music, composing pieces that the 55-piece Metropole Orkest has recorded. His newest composition, Architones, is also available on Spotify.
We discuss the relations and differences between working in these two fields, the metamorphoses of buildings and music, and the challenges of delivering a feasible building.
During our discussion, Ron generously shares his compositional insights and the creative process behind his homage to the Vredespalais (Peace Palace) in The Hague. He reveals how he began with a waltz rhythm, a choice that adds a unique musical dimension to the architectural masterpiece.
Show Notes
- Connect with Ron on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ron-van-leeuwen-65b30723/
- Architones website: https://architones.com/
- Architones on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/2VJ4ZJhDqlXNwKnuQjoPFw?si=2DW2gQ9_Q66iTvLEBvJNSw
- Kokon: Architecture & Urbanism: https://www.kokon.nl/en
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
- Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Monday Apr 22, 2024
The Art of Freedom with Jennifer Roig-Francoli
Monday Apr 22, 2024
Monday Apr 22, 2024
How are your habits getting in the way of being more creative? How does self-observation make you a better performer? And how can touching from a distance help you with performance problems?
Today, we speak with Jennifer Roig-Francoli - violinist, healer, coach, author and creator of The Art of Freedom Method for Conscious Living and Masterful Artistry.
We discuss methods like the Alexander technique, the Suzuki method, the mother-tongue method, NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming) and how they benefit everyone who has to rehearse and perform, whether in music or business.
And Jennifer shares her experiences as a solo artist, the challenges of keeping up great performances, and insights from her #1 Amazon bestseller, Make Great Music with Ease! Where She provides deep insights and lasting solutions to the challenges musicians face, including pain, performance nerves, and emotional stress.
Show Notes
- Connect with Jennifer: www.ArtofFreedom.me
- Youtube channel: www.youtube.com/@JenniferRoigFrancoli
- Her #1 Amazon book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CN3SX8DK
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.

Sunday Mar 24, 2024
Music and Astrophysics with Dr Mariana Wagner
Sunday Mar 24, 2024
Sunday Mar 24, 2024
Dr. Mariana Wagner, an astrophysicist, songwriter, podcaster, and composer of immersive live shows about sound and space.
We learn about her journey that led her from studying oceanography, working as a songwriter for German Schlager stars and becoming a doctor of astrophysics.
Mariana also brought some sound examples to the show. We hear a conversation between Saturn and one of its moons, an excerpt from the sound files on the famous golden record that has accompanied the Voyager since 1977, and the grooving sound of moving plasma from the sun.
Show Notes
- Connect with Mariana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-mariana-wagner-2a241a75/
- Podcast (mostly German speaking): https://marianawagner.de/podcast/
- Introduction to the sound and space live shows: https://marianawagner.de/show/#_info
- Golden record and the untold story how Chakrulo ended up in space: https://georgianjournal.ge/discover-georgia/28321-the-untold-story-of-how-chakrulo-ended-up-in-space.html
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’:
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
- Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating leaders, teams and organisations in customer experience, change and innovation.

Tuesday Feb 27, 2024
Better English with Jam Cards and Anita Prestidge
Tuesday Feb 27, 2024
Tuesday Feb 27, 2024
How cool is this? You develop a multisensory product to let people experience your ideas about music thinking and then someone comes along and uses your product for something completely different.
So today, we speak with Anita Prestidge, an English trainer with experience in theatre, directing, and education. When Anita picked up the cards, she had another idea of what to do with these cards and developed her own unique method. So, if you want to speak better English while using the Jam Cards, connect with Anita online.
Show Notes
- Connect with Anita on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anita-prestidge/
- A Video Introduction by Anita Prestidge for potential students: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHly19lnmCo
- Get the Jam Cards: https://musicthinking.com/jam-cards/
- Behind the Cards stories: https://musicthinking.com/?s=behind+the+cards
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’!
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
- Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating leaders, teams and organisations in customer experience, change and innovation.

Friday Feb 02, 2024
Science and Music dialogue with Carolin Seiferth
Friday Feb 02, 2024
Friday Feb 02, 2024
Today, we are in Sweden, and we speak with Carolin Seiferth - a PhD student at the Stockholm Resilience Centre, where she does research on the island of Öland.
Carolin combines scientific research with music to raise awareness about sustainability issues around the Baltic Sea. In this way, she inspires the audience to take action to address challenges related to a changing climate. Carolin shares some insights with us about her research and the creative production that led to the musical piece “Dialogues” as part of the Baltic Sea Festival Science Lab.
We talked about her creative and dialogue-based approach with local actors in different workshops and how she transformed the results of her investigation into a poem that was a central part of the musical composition.
We reflect on the different sound qualities of rainfall and her curiosity to explore other ways of combining art-based approaches with scientific research in the future to create opportunities for engaging with sustainability questions on a much deeper level.
Show Notes
- Connect with Carolin on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/carolin-seiferth-a64333170
- Watch Carolin’s performance (Performance 1: Sense of place, Carolin’s part starts at minute 36):
https://www.berwaldhallen.se/en/play/experience-research-on-sustainability-set-to-music/ - Read more about Carolin’s research:
https://www.stockholmresilience.org/meet-our-team/staff/2022-07-22-seiferth.html - Curious about the Baltic Sea Festival Science Lab?
https://www.berwaldhallen.se/en/the-baltic-sea-festival-science-lab/
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’!
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
- Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and the Jam Cards at a 20% discount using musicthinking20 at the check-out of the BIS Publishers website only.
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating leaders, teams and organisations in customer experience, change and innovation.

Wednesday Dec 20, 2023
Rewind 2023 - The Power of Music Thinking - Podcast
Wednesday Dec 20, 2023
Wednesday Dec 20, 2023
Welcome to the Rewind 2023 of The Power of Music Thinking podcast, where I have conversations with extraordinary people from all over the world who are also musicians or use music in the broadest sense of the word to learn, teach, inspire and collaborate meaningfully.
This year, we had 15 episodes, and virtually, we travelled from Nijmegen in the Netherlands, where all podcasts are recorded, to Berlin, Braunschweig, Zürich, London, Oslo, New York, West Virginia, Nashville, Los Angeles, Hawaii, Singapore, Tokyo, Mumbai and New Zealand.
What were the themes?
The overarching themes were leadership, co-creation, creativity, and how music can be used as an analogy to explain the world and work more meaningfully together.
We had some unique themes and zoomed into subjects like health, sound healing, city policy, political journalism, sonification of data, sonic branding, storytelling, AI, and photography.
more on musicthinking.com

Saturday Dec 02, 2023
How Music Can Make Your City Better with Shain Shapiro
Saturday Dec 02, 2023
Saturday Dec 02, 2023
Today, we are in Nashville, and we speak with Shain Shapiro - a globally recognised thought leader at the convergence of music, culture and urban policy.
Shain is the CEO of Sound Diplomacy - a global research and strategy consultancy, and he also leads the non-profit Center for Music Ecosystems, which commissions research to help solve local, national and international challenges using music as a tool.
Shain has authored reports on the role of music in cities, tourism, the nighttime economy, real estate and recovery, including the most extensive guide to music and the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) in partnership with the United Nations.
We are talking about his brand-new book, This Must Be The Place: How Music Can Make Your City Better, which was published in September 2023.
Note: Unfortunately, there was a very poor Wifi, so please excuse the quality.
Show Notes
- Connect with Shain on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shainhouse/
- Sound Diplomacy: www.sounddiplomacy.com
- Music Cities Events: www.musiccitiesevents.com
- His book: This Must Be The Place: https://www.shainshapiro.com/book
Show support
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’!
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
- Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards.
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating leaders, teams and organisations in customer experience, change and innovation.

Sunday Nov 05, 2023
The Sound of a Toy Dolphin - Special Episode - The Power of Music Thinking
Sunday Nov 05, 2023
Sunday Nov 05, 2023
Listen to an incredible sonic project by a Design Academy Eindhoven (DAE) graduate: Louis Moeckel. Hear the story about the supply chain of the production of a Toy Dolphin and the creation of research into an artistic Vinyl record. If you like Techno and the Berghain Club in Berlin you will like this. See the show notes to pre-order this unique Vinyl record.
Show support to the Podcast
Please choose one or more of the ‘three ways to support the show’!
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
- Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards.
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating leaders, teams and organisations in customer experience, change and innovation.

Wednesday Oct 04, 2023
Standing still with Alexander Refsum Jensenius
Wednesday Oct 04, 2023
Wednesday Oct 04, 2023
What is the use of standing still for 10 minutes? I was asking myself when I saw a post on social media. It was a double picture of a man with a mobile phone around his neck displaying some data, and another picture showed the view he saw at that moment. I learned that he stood there for 10 minutes without any movement, listening to the sound that was already there. There were many pictures like this, and I decided to get in contact.
So, today, we are in Oslo. We speak with Alexander Refsum Jensenius, a professor of music technology at the University of Oslo, a book author, a music researcher and researching musician working in the fields of embodied music cognition and new interfaces for musical expression.
Alexander shares with us his experiences while performing and testing with artistic methods of embodied listening and how people experience music and sound. This goes from experiments with and without the conductor of a Symphony Orchestra to the sounds of our kitchen appliances.
We talk about his motion capture lab, where a person’s exact location and micro-movements can be detected while they hear different kinds of music, and how the researchers can understand what moves them.
Alexander shares insights about the Norwegian Championship of Stand Still, where until now, 1000s of people have participated, and the winner is the person with the lowest average velocity on standing the stillest over some time.
Alexander explains the interplay of body and mind and reveals some secrets on how to move people, for example, on the dance floor or to calm them down. It all has to do with our bpm, the average heartbeat of about 60 beats a minute.
Show Notes
- Connect with Alexander on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexarje/
- Follow his still-standing on Mastodon: https://mastodon.online/tags/StillStanding
- Standstill database: https://www.uio.no/ritmo/english/research/labs/fourms/database/oslo-standstill-database/
- Analysis of Research Concert with Stavanger Symphony Orchestra UniOslo_RITMO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpiEVkys-Tk
- Check out his book: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262544634/
- Mentioned by Christof: Noisy appliances. How loud is your house: https://www.quietmark.com/news/noisy-appliances-how-loud-is-your-house
Show support
Please choose one or more of the 'three ways to support the show'!
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
- Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards.
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating leaders, teams and organisations in customer experience, change and innovation.

Monday Sep 11, 2023
Sonification with Mike von der Nahmer
Monday Sep 11, 2023
Monday Sep 11, 2023
Mike von der Nahmer is a sound researcher, music therapist, scientific collaborator at the German Aerospace Center and composer.
With over 30 stage works and 100+ compositions, he holds international recognition. He has collaborated with GRAMMY, Kenwood, Sony BMG, Rolls Royce and BMW, and his music has been featured in TV series like NOVA.
Mike shares with us some sonification projects in various domains, such as weather patterns, language, the brain, and sound design in autonomous vehicles. For example, he gives us insights into his work at the German Aerospace Center (the German NASA), where he works on the sonification of air traffic control.
Today, you will not only hear us talking but also experience different sound worlds. Because Mike brought some sound files to the conversation, we hear different sound layers from an air traffic game and examples of what he calls 'mood compositions' for Rolls Royce, BMW and Mini that are central in the sound strategy of these car brands.
We end the conversation with a longer piece of about five minutes of sonification of curves that Mike co-created with two outstanding mathematicians in Luxemburg.
So be prepared to hear about pioneering thoughts connecting sound, science, and human experience.
Show Notes
- Connect with Mike via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-michael-mike-von-der-nahmer-0780964/
- Sonification in Air Traffic Control, German Aerospace Center (DLR): https://www.dlr.de/fl/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-1149/1737_read-74107/
- “ReShape”, Sound of Data - Science meets Music, sonification of curves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9l_oTHr-_w
- Mashrabiya ReShaped, painting curves to music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci0uISK2KAA
- Mike von der Nahmer, Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@mikevondernahmer5051
- Mentimeter questions on sonification: https://www.menti.com/altpihgk8vfp/0
- Beethoven's 5th mapped in a Customer Journey software: https://www.smaply.com/blog/cx-professional-interview-christof-zuern
Show support
Please choose one or more of the 'three ways to support the show'!
- Subscribe to the podcast. Leave us a review — even one sentence helps! I appreciate your support; it helps the show!
- Tell your friends about the podcast and musicthinking.com
- Buy the book The Power of Music Thinking and/or the Jam Cards.
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating leaders, teams and organisations in customer experience, change and innovation.