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What can the dynamics of music teach us about navigating today’s complex world? The Power of Music Thinking podcast dives deep into this potent analogy. Host Christof Zürn, founder of MusicThinking.com, explores how concepts like listening, tuning, rhythm, and improvisation translate into powerful tools for business, creativity, and leadership. Through engaging interviews with global thought leaders, designers, entrepreneurs, and artists, discover practical ways to improve collaboration, spark innovation, and lead teams more effectively. Learn how to listen differently, find your team’s rhythm, and embrace improvisation in the face of uncertainty. And there are special episodes around a theme or experiment. For anyone fascinated by the intersection of creativity, strategy, and human dynamics – subscribe to The Power of Music Thinking.
Episodes

Monday May 16, 2022
Performing in Japan with Bjoern
Monday May 16, 2022
Monday May 16, 2022
Today we are in München, Germany, talking to Björn Eichstädt, Managing Partner & Co-Owner of Storymaker and publisher of the digital magazine “J-BIG – Japan Business in Germany”. He studied Neurobiology and was active in experimental music in the 1990s and 2000s.
Björn takes us on a trip to Japan. From J-Horror Films, Japanese Spirits, Film music, audio innovations, sound aficionados and the Sound Design of the Tokyo Treinstation (note: I added the Yurakucho sound after the conversation).
And he shares the business habits and the harmony aspect in collaboration, the ‘performance thinking’ of meetings in Japan and ‘the customer is god’ attitude.
But let’s start with a warning, this is by far the most extended podcast in The Power of Music Thinking history, so if you are prepared to listen to 30 minutes podcasts, you might want to pause and listen further the next day.
All right let’s dive into it.
Show notes
- Björn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjoern-eichstaedt-77889b2/
- Storymaker Website: https://www.storymaker.de/en/home-en
- Japan Business in Germany: https://www.j-big.de/en/
Extra links to Films and Music mentioned in the conversation
Toru Takemitsu - Woman in the dunes
Un Uomo da Rispettare (Complete) - Ennio Morricone
J-Horror and Sound: Kayako Saeki sound
J-Horror and Sound 2: Ringu Sound Design
Vocaloid: Hatsune Miku - World is Mine ~【手描き】ワールドイズマイン【Erich von Däniken / Peter Thomas: Chariots of the Gods: Peter Thomas Sound Orchestra - Chariots Of The Gods ℗ 1970 - YouTube
Stockhausen: Sounds in Space, Osaka 1970
Pedestrian crossings with sound in Japan! - YouTube
Gate Sounds for Boarding. - YouTube
Yamanote Line - The Comprehensive Eki-melo Database
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating companies in making brand minded and people-centred decisions.
Buy The Power of Music Thinking book
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Wednesday May 04, 2022
Finding your Side B with Paula White
Wednesday May 04, 2022
Wednesday May 04, 2022
Today we are in New Albany, Ohio. We speak with Paula White, a globally recognized sales leader, leadership coach and author of the book Side B: Remix Your Leadership Style.
We talk about how music can (re)charge the way you are leading and how leaders can work on their behavioural traits based on music principles. Paula shares with us the ten archetypal instruments that are based on a scientific survey. And Paula explains more about the saxophone type that came out of the survey I did before the conversation.
Show notes
- Paula S White on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paula-s-white/
- Side B book page: https://paulaswhite.com/book-order/
- The gracious Saxophone: https://paulaswhite.com/music/the-saxophone-gracious/
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating companies in making brand minded and people centered decisions.
Buy The Power of Music Thinking book
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Tuesday Apr 05, 2022
Talking about the book with Xenia
Tuesday Apr 05, 2022
Tuesday Apr 05, 2022
Today we switch roles: Christof asked his daughter Xenia to ask him anything about the new book: The Power of Music Thinking. Because Xenia was already a collaborator on the Jam Cards, a pre-reader of the new book and worked with her dad for many years, she can ask questions no one else could or would. They talked about leadership, followership, Service Design, the difference between metaphors and analogies, and why a book?
Be ready for a pleasant conversation between father and daughter about The Power of Music Thinking.
Show notes
- Book page with a sneak preview: https://musicthinking.com/book-the-power-of-music-thinking/
- Jam Cards page: https://musicthinking.com/jam-cards/
- Xenia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xenia-z%C3%BCrn/
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating companies in making brand minded and people-centred decisions.
Buy The Power of Music Thinking book
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Monday Feb 14, 2022
Brands as Patterns with Marc Shillum
Monday Feb 14, 2022
Monday Feb 14, 2022
Today we speak with Marc Shillum, Designer, Creative Mind and trained musician.
Marc was the founding Chief Experience Officer of Matternet, a pioneering transportation startup awarded World Economic Forum Technology Pioneer. In his role, he connected the dots between Customer Needs, Hardware Design, Software Design, User Experience, Visual Design, Business Strategy and Brand Building.
Marc has written OpEds for The World Economic Forum and Virgin Unite, delivered keynotes at SXSW, the Lego Marketing Summit, Nike Design Summit, and others.
And Marc is the author of 'Brands as Patterns', a white paper that opinion-makers like FastCompany, Contagious Magazine and PSFK have republished.
We have a wonderful conversation about analogies between design, business, the human body and music. For example, Marc shares the various roles of a trumpet player in an orchestra and his early experiences with improvising musicians like Graham Collier and Derek Bailey.
We talk about different leadership positions, from composing, orchestrating, and conducting and how different musical styles help us understand our business.
And we discuss the difference between frequency and cadence in an agile workspace and how brands can orchestrate their business successfully with patterns.
Show notes
- Brands as Patterns platform, https://www.brandsaspatterns.com
- Marc on Twitter, https://twitter.com/BrandsPatterns
- Marc on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/marc-s-92967b2/
- Magazine INDEX, including a few conversations with guitarist Derek Bailey, we talked about in the session: http://www.index.works
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION specialised in facilitating companies in making brand minded and people-centred decisions.
Buy The Power of Music Thinking book (April 2022)
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Thursday Feb 03, 2022
Listening walk
Thursday Feb 03, 2022
Thursday Feb 03, 2022
In this short episode, we look back on some conversations from last year, share tips and short exercises like a 1-minute ritual before a brainstorm and the listening walk. Show notes • Podcast playlist on Spotify • The Power of Music Thinking Book, pre-order • Latest Episode More info The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION Learn more about the Book that will be published in April 22, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page. See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking Podchaser MYGDb8hJqQvdUmZja9nx

Tuesday Nov 30, 2021
Rules of engagement with Jim Kalbach
Tuesday Nov 30, 2021
Tuesday Nov 30, 2021
How do you bring humanity to work? How do you connect with your team on different levels?
Today, we are in New York, and we talk with Jim Kalbach. Jim is a noted author, speaker, musician, and instructor in design, customer experience, and strategy. He is currently Chief Evangelist at MURAL, the digital online whiteboard designed for remote collaboration and visual problem-solving.
Jim studied music theory and composition with 12-tone composer Charles Wuorinen, and that gives us a kick-start to discuss the differences between fixed instructions, lead sheets and free improvisation in music and our daily work. We talk about systems thinking in a 12-tone composition where every note is equal and how this connects to design thinking. And we chat about the difference between rhythm, beat and cadence in agile development.
Jim shares with us his CEO playing guitar and singing in a meeting and how this brought in playfulness, opened things up and made it meaningful.
Show notes
- Connect with Jim:https://www.linkedin.com/in/kalbach/
- JTBD Tool Kit website: www.jtbdtoolkit.com
- Jim on Twitter: https://twitter.com/JimKalbach
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Wednesday Sep 29, 2021
A Sound Facilitation Business with Gerry Scullion
Wednesday Sep 29, 2021
Wednesday Sep 29, 2021
How do you design for inclusivity? How do you get the right people on the team? What would a studio look like for a service designer?
Today on the show we have Gerry Scullion. Gerry is the founder of This is HCD, the global human-centred design podcast and international design community of change-makers, and he is founder and CEO of This is Doing.com
In a ‘previous life’, he was a musician and songwriter who released two albums under the moniker: Minus Circus and worked with 13-time Grammy-winning producer Rafa Sardina.
A few months ago, I was a guest on his podcast, and we talked about the interrelationship of music and design and what design can learn from music.
So today, we talk about how the shared mindset comes back in the daily life of a facilitator, service designer and change maker.
Gerry gives us insights into how it was like working with a top-notch producer that had the experience, knowledge and ability to drill down and zoom in on a detail and then drill the whole way out to see the whole.
And we talk about bringing vulnerability and laughter to co-create innovation and engage people to be their very best.
(The instrument you hear in the beginning is the Theremin we talked about in our first conversation.)
Show notes
- Connect with Gerry:
- This is Doing: www.thisisDoing.com
- Twitter: @thisisdoing and @gerrycircus
- This is Human Centred Design: www.thisishcd.com
- Episode with Gerry and Christof on This is HCD: https://www.thisishcd.com/episode/christof-zurn-the-power-of-music-thinking
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Wednesday Sep 15, 2021
The Jazz Process to innovation with Adrian Cho
Wednesday Sep 15, 2021
Wednesday Sep 15, 2021
Why do people tip up to six times more than they already have paid? How do people deal with adversity? What do Jazz and Business have in common?
Today we are in Canada talking to Adrian Cho, ex-IBM consultant, book author, wildlife photographer, artistic director of the Ottawa Jazz Orchestra, bass player and creative director of syncspace.
We talk about how a damaged muscle brought Adrian to the piano and later to software development and IT consulting. He shares with us how jazz thinking can influence innovation and help embrace the unknown so that exciting things can happen.
We discuss the essence of how people work meaningful together, how people deal with adversity in teams and what this means for team development. And we talk about his new endeavour, syncspace, and why audiences on this platform tip four to six times more than they already have paid.
Show notes
- Connect with Adrian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/2xbass/
- Website: https://www.adriancho.com/
- Syncspace: https://syncspace.live/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/syncspacelive
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Tuesday Aug 24, 2021
Multi-sensory storytelling with Jasper Udink ten Cate
Tuesday Aug 24, 2021
Tuesday Aug 24, 2021
How can you tell a story through food and music? Are all chefs drummers? Should prominent leaders start a band together?
In this episode, Creative Companion meets the Creative Chef. We have a lively conversation with Jasper Udink ten Cate, artist, designer, futurist, keynote speaker, book author and drummer. He worked worldwide on exhibitions like London Design Week, Dubai Design, Metropolitan Museum New York and the World Expo in Milano and for companies like Nike, BASF and Google.
Jasper shares his approach to collective storytelling with food, music and design. And we talk about different tastes and diets and how to give goosebumps from natural vegan food to inspire people to create their own identity. He shares the story of the unripe peach and how reframing can be the start of new product innovation.
We chat about how you can listen to yourself to create your own beautiful story, shape your personality and make decisions in consuming music, books, food and life.
Show notes
- Connect with Jasper: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasper-udink-ten-cate-19b85bb/
- Creative Chef website: https://creativechef.nl/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/creativechefnl/
- How to become a Creative Chef Book: https://www.bispublishers.com/creative-chef.html
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking

Tuesday Aug 10, 2021
The Thrills of Business with Padraic McMahon
Tuesday Aug 10, 2021
Tuesday Aug 10, 2021
What are the similarities between the technology and the record industry? And what is situational leadership?
In this episode, we connect with Padraic McMahon, Customer Success Manager at Hubspot, a software company that helps businesses grow. Padraic has worked in Management positions at Google and LinkedIn. Before that, he was the guitar player of The Thrills that had some major hits from 2003 on. Their first LP was going platinum in the UK and Ireland, and their top hit 'Big Sur' has more than 8 Mio plays on Spotify alone and is still growing.
We talk about the similarities in tech business and the record business and the situational leadership of the producer role that brings a group of people to their optimum performance regardless of the circumstances.
He shares with us what the Hubspot unplugged week means to the team and compares the studio analogy with the importance of the work-life balance in working for a technology company. And the insight that you need different leadership at different times. Like the difference of the first record, to the second and the third - or in my words from start-up to scale-up to selling the company.
Padraic gives us an example of 'the art of remixing' where visual and sonic cues help make the mix's best decision.
Quote: 'Where you invest, you need to divest!'
Show notes
- Connect with Padraic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/padraicmcmahon/
- Hubspot website: https://www.hubspot.com/
- The Thrills on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thrills
- Padraic explains Schumpeter’s Theory of Creative Destruction and MBWA - management by wandering around.
More info
The Power of Music Thinking is brought to you by CREATIVE COMPANION
Learn more about The Music Thinking Framework, the Jam Cards and the blog on musicthinking.com or the Music Thinking LinkedIn page.
See the latest episode of The Power of Music Thinking